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Robot Arena => Discussion => Topic started by: TeamXtreemer on October 31, 2011, 08:41:28 AM

Title: Idea - 'The Chassis Market'
Post by: TeamXtreemer on October 31, 2011, 08:41:28 AM
Sounds cheesy, 'Yuh. But it's an idea I've been thinking of for a while, maybe we could have a thread dedicated to chassis for ceritan types of bots.

We could have ones with batteries/extenders pre-fitted or a blank canvas.
They could be in different categories (AW,BW,LW,MW... etc. But also maybe Novelty? Art?).

E.G.
----------------
---------------

Now, I know what you're thinking ''T.X, you're just lazy and don't want to make chassis!''
Well, that may be true, I'm not wonderful at chassis-ing, but maybe this could be used for tournaments? Showcases? It could be like the BotExchange! (Obviously just a thread)
There may be a group in the groups section (it's not used that much, needs to be used really). called Chassis Moderators? They could be able to edit the first page of the thread to add new chassis, or it could just be like a showcase.
(It would more than likely be in the showcases section).

If you guys are interested, PM me or something, I'll be happy to set it up.

-TX.
Title: Re: Idea - 'The Chassis Market'
Post by: Badnik96 on October 31, 2011, 09:11:18 AM
Someone tried this years ago (IIRC). It didn't work.
Title: Re: Idea - 'The Chassis Market'
Post by: TeamXtreemer on October 31, 2011, 10:47:52 AM
Someone tried this years ago (IIRC). It didn't work.
Well, it might be worth another try?
If we get enough people behind it, who knows.
Title: Re: Idea - 'The Chassis Market'
Post by: smashysmashy on October 31, 2011, 11:15:00 AM
I like the idea of this.
Title: Re: Idea - 'The Chassis Market'
Post by: madman3 on October 31, 2011, 11:33:23 AM
Some obvious uses is for HS, but I don't entirely support its use for very specific bot types. There should rather be certain platforms, such as one for pokers and rammers, one for FS and trappers, one for general gutrippers like popups and drums, along those lines.
Title: Re: Idea - 'The Chassis Market'
Post by: HurricaneAndrew on October 31, 2011, 01:49:14 PM
Decent idea, but likely to be shot down.
Title: Re: Idea - 'The Chassis Market'
Post by: Naryar on October 31, 2011, 02:37:41 PM
And then newbs and n00bs will stop building chassis, and start relying on better builder's chassis, therefore taking some of the skill out of building.

Newbs must learn how to trim well a chassis. Not rely on other's chassis for help.

Building skill level has already degraded enough. Don't pull it farther down, please.

You have all right to make a good and various chassis database for your use, and it's actually a good, time-saving idea - I tried to do that way back but didn't have the will to do it - but don't share it with the whole community then.

Also this doesn't belong in chatterbox. Moving it to a more suitable forum.
Title: Re: Idea - 'The Chassis Market'
Post by: NFX on October 31, 2011, 02:56:10 PM
I can see how you would see the upside for it, but I'm in agreement with Naryar here. It does sap a lot of the skill out of building a good chassis, and there are a lot of specialised chassis' out there, I feel, which would only work for one specific bot, such as Clickbeetle's Thunder Cloud. I know it's old, but it proves my point. So nice idea in theory, but in practice, I don't think so.
Title: Re: Idea - 'The Chassis Market'
Post by: That Robot is a Spy! on October 31, 2011, 02:59:26 PM
This is an excellent idea for newer users, but for veterans, they'd be better off making a new chassis.
Title: Re: Idea - 'The Chassis Market'
Post by: Squirrel_Monkey on October 31, 2011, 03:01:28 PM
Here you go:
Now go have fun.
Title: Re: Idea - 'The Chassis Market'
Post by: smashysmashy on October 31, 2011, 03:09:48 PM
Here you go:
Now go have fun.
Very successful post much? xD
Title: Re: Idea - 'The Chassis Market'
Post by: madman3 on October 31, 2011, 03:10:18 PM
This is an excellent idea for newer users, but for veterans, they'd be better off making a new chassis.
I think the inverse; a veteran generally can make a good chassis but may simply not be bothered to build one, while a newbie needs the experience.
Title: Re: Idea - 'The Chassis Market'
Post by: Naryar on October 31, 2011, 03:10:59 PM
Actually I have a better idea.

You called your thing a MARKET, right ? A market isn't a charity. A market is somewhere where you exchange items, not give them to other people for free. What about something on exchanging chassis ? One for one, so it's fair and it doesn't makes the market users less skilled.

This is an excellent idea for newer users, but for veterans, they'd be better off making a new chassis.
I think the inverse; a veteran generally can make a good chassis but may simply not be bothered to build one, while a newbie needs the experience.

Agree with madman.
Title: Re: Idea - 'The Chassis Market'
Post by: RpJk on October 31, 2011, 03:13:56 PM
I agree with Naryar and NFX here but with a bit of a different approach.

Using other peoples chassis also increases chances of cloning and it takes away learning when it comes to that area.
About a 1/3 of very good building in Both Stock and DSL is with chassis building and building a tight chassis for different bot types is a great skill in the game and that is cheap.

But it could only be for people who are struggling with those caster V wedges or with a 36 HS chassis.

Also chassis moderators? What next? wedge moderators or component moderators?

Overall looks alright but its not the first time its done. Theres a pack in the RA2 Dowloads called the JX Starter Pack which is that idea.

Link: https://gametechmods.com/Robot_Arena2/AI_Packs/Others/JX_ra2_starter_pack.zip (https://gametechmods.com/Robot_Arena2/AI_Packs/Others/JX_ra2_starter_pack.zip)
Title: Re: Idea - 'The Chassis Market'
Post by: madman3 on October 31, 2011, 03:18:59 PM
Actually I have a better idea.

You called your thing a MARKET, right ? A market isn't a charity. A market is somewhere where you exchange items, not give them to other people for free. What about something on exchanging chassis ? One for one, so it's fair and it doesn't makes the market users less skilled.

This is an excellent idea for newer users, but for veterans, they'd be better off making a new chassis.
I think the inverse; a veteran generally can make a good chassis but may simply not be bothered to build one, while a newbie needs the experience.

Agree with madman.
As to the former, I can see problems unless we establish certain members as trustworthy sources; a newbie could trade a pretty decent chassis to another and get a half assed one in return. In addition I can see a problem with this as it almost entirely effects the veterans who do chassis swapping to experiment with design, while I can't see a big use by newer users.

As for the latter statement, yays.
Title: Re: Idea - 'The Chassis Market'
Post by: Squirrel_Monkey on October 31, 2011, 03:20:03 PM
If anyone needs a Trov glitch chassis done, I can help.
Title: Re: Idea - 'The Chassis Market'
Post by: RpJk on October 31, 2011, 03:21:19 PM
If anyone needs a Trov glitch chassis done, I can help.

That would be useful.
Title: Re: Idea - 'The Chassis Market'
Post by: Squirrel_Monkey on October 31, 2011, 03:34:40 PM
If anyone needs a Trov glitch chassis done, I can help.

That would be useful.
You'd have to specify what shape.
Title: Re: Idea - 'The Chassis Market'
Post by: martymidget on October 31, 2011, 04:01:27 PM
I think its a fair idea, but the DSL bit would generally be what S_M posted- there a probably hundreds of different bots with that very chassis. Most non-standard bots have a custom chassis made by the builder anyways.

Giving out a pre-made chassis for a 36hs or Psyc Popup would also take out 1/2 of the building skill in stock.

Title: Re: Idea - 'The Chassis Market'
Post by: Trovaner on October 31, 2011, 08:24:07 PM
If you're too lazy to make a new chassis, use an old one. Why would you want to download somebody else's when quality and usefulness are less of a for sure thing. Most chassis are roughly the same shape anyway (box with a battery and some sort of attachment point(s)) so reusing a well made one would at least guarantee that the quality is up to snuff. Also giving credit to somebody for a generic chassis seems silly to me.

IMO, making a chassis market would only make bots seem more generic than they already are (the effect would be similar to what happened after Ian released his most efficient AW chassis). The most original bots start out from an original chassis. Though it hardly looks original, BlackVein uses a chassis design that takes advantage of quite a few little things that wouldn't be possible on a generic chassis.

Having an airtight chassis isn't always a good thing though. Having more surface area usually results in more HP. To be efficient, you would need to remake the chassis again after assembling the entire bot (or do some preliminary math and adjustments to the chassis). Unfortunately, if you're too lazy to make your own chassis then you're probably too lazy to do the math. So the efficiency of a generic chassis wouldn't change.
Title: Re: Idea - 'The Chassis Market'
Post by: HurricaneAndrew on October 31, 2011, 10:24:22 PM
I usually build multiple bots from a single chassis.
Title: Re: Idea - 'The Chassis Market'
Post by: cephalopod on November 01, 2011, 02:59:53 AM
Yes, I have a chassis that I use for all the Blood Orange bots, and sometimes even bigger stuff (the new Shinigami stupidly had the BO chassis).
Would I give it away freely?
Probably not.
Title: Re: Idea - 'The Chassis Market'
Post by: smashysmashy on November 01, 2011, 03:30:27 AM
Have I kidnapped your BO3 chassis from the bot exchange? Yes.
Title: Re: Idea - 'The Chassis Market'
Post by: cephalopod on November 01, 2011, 08:32:02 AM
Have I kidnapped your BO3 chassis from the bot exchange? Yes.

ndnfuj. Damn you. :') but yeah, I think it's better to learn.
Title: Re: Idea - 'The Chassis Market'
Post by: Somebody on November 01, 2011, 08:46:49 AM
My opinion is summed up by this quote, from all over the forum.

"Build the chassis to the parts, not the parts to the chassis"

To be good, you have to get off your ass and build a custom chassis. The End.
Title: Re: Idea - 'The Chassis Market'
Post by: Natef on November 01, 2011, 08:52:26 AM
Yeah, this isn't a good idea.
Title: Re: Idea - 'The Chassis Market'
Post by: Avalanche on November 01, 2011, 09:06:01 AM
Chassis market on its own is a flop but what about bot templates?Wheels, motors, power and chassis all in one,and you just have to tweak it a little bit more.
Title: Re: Idea - 'The Chassis Market'
Post by: Natef on November 01, 2011, 09:07:44 AM
I think that's worse.
Title: Re: Idea - 'The Chassis Market'
Post by: Naryar on November 01, 2011, 09:10:38 AM
Chassis market on its own is a flop but what about bot templates?Wheels, motors, power and chassis all in one,and you just have to tweak it a little bit more.

Dumbest idea i've heard on this thread... why ? because newbs and n00bs will have to make even less effort to build a bot, and it will encourage generic designs.
Title: Re: Idea - 'The Chassis Market'
Post by: RpJk on November 01, 2011, 09:18:51 AM
My opinion is summed up by this quote, from all over the forum.

"Build the chassis to the parts, not the parts to the chassis"

To be good, you have to get off your ass and build a custom chassis. The End.

It couldn't be better said.
Title: Re: Idea - 'The Chassis Market'
Post by: Squirrel_Monkey on November 01, 2011, 10:59:32 AM
My opinion is summed up by this quote, from all over the forum.

"Build the chassis to the parts, not the parts to the chassis"

To be good, you have to get off your ass and build a custom chassis. The End.
That quote applies mainly in stock (generic chassis can be used in some cases). I applies less so in DSL with so many external components.
Title: Re: Idea - 'The Chassis Market'
Post by: TeamXtreemer on November 03, 2011, 01:07:23 PM
Thanks for the feedback, guys.

I agree with most people, it will more than likely fail and will deter people from making chassis, but, who knows, it wouldn't hurt to try.
Title: Re: Idea - 'The Chassis Market'
Post by: Avalanche on November 03, 2011, 02:41:49 PM
TX,Im with you all the way.I always had trouble with chassis:I ballsed them up regular.It was one of my main flaws.
Title: Re: Idea - 'The Chassis Market'
Post by: TeamXtreemer on November 04, 2011, 05:04:34 AM
Thanks, Avalanche.

I'm putting together a chassis pack now, as a 'preview', PM me any chassis you want including.
Title: Re: Idea - 'The Chassis Market'
Post by: J on November 04, 2011, 11:46:06 AM
I sorta' skimmed the topic, so sue me.
We COULD say you can ONLY use a chassis from this if you have contributed a chassis(which got accepted), and/or have X number of posts + an actual showcase thread.

Also, we could set this up PM style, just so we can restrict direct access to said chassis, if we really wanted to go that far.
Title: Re: Idea - 'The Chassis Market'
Post by: madman3 on November 04, 2011, 12:12:32 PM
TX,Im with you all the way.I always had trouble with chassis:I ballsed them up regular.It was one of my main flaws.
If you suck at chassis building, get better, don't just use other peoples work. You're technically one of the people who are least likely to deserve a free chassis, so get better so we can give you one, as at least then you've proved you can make a chassis decently.
Title: Re: Idea - 'The Chassis Market'
Post by: Avalanche on November 04, 2011, 01:40:55 PM
Well how am i meant to get better? Magic? No, The chassis market because i can take ideas and tinker with them till i get the skill. And cloneing is the way forward.
Title: Re: Idea - 'The Chassis Market'
Post by: Natef on November 04, 2011, 02:02:03 PM
That won't help you.
Title: Re: Idea - 'The Chassis Market'
Post by: NFX on November 04, 2011, 02:40:56 PM
Well how am i meant to get better? Magic? No, The chassis market because i can take ideas and tinker with them till i get the skill. And cloneing is the way forward.
Practice. And turn off Snap to Grid. If you want to improve your building, you're gonna have to learn some patience, in order to redo your chassis pixel by pixel to make it airtight.
Title: Re: Idea - 'The Chassis Market'
Post by: Avalanche on November 04, 2011, 02:52:59 PM
I care this much: []
Title: Re: Idea - 'The Chassis Market'
Post by: Naryar on November 04, 2011, 02:55:30 PM
oh heck LRA2, using other builder's chassis isn't going to make you a better builder, it's just being lazy.

What IS going to make you a better builder is : Think up a design. Build it. When finished, test it against many other designs, learn it's strengths and weaknesses, or think about how it could be better and/or more efficient (Testing is generally better). Improve it. Wash, rinse, repeat. By all means go and start another design if you're bored with improving always the same design, other ideas to improve your first design will come with time.

If you suck at chassis building, get better, don't just use other peoples work. You're technically one of the people who are least likely to deserve a free chassis, so get better so we can give you one, as at least then you've proved you can make a chassis decently.
Point taken.
Title: Re: Idea - 'The Chassis Market'
Post by: Avalanche on November 04, 2011, 03:02:33 PM
Naryar,i think you need to get the point.
Ill just make this more clear.
I CARE THIS MUCH [],SO DONT BLOODY BOTHER.
Title: Re: Idea - 'The Chassis Market'
Post by: J on November 05, 2011, 12:00:31 AM
What IS going to make you a better builder is : Think up a design. Build it. When finished, test it against many other designs, learn it's strengths and weaknesses, or think about how it could be better and/or more efficient (Testing is generally better). Improve it. Wash, rinse, repeat. By all means go and start another design if you're bored with improving always the same design, other ideas to improve your first design will come with time.
This.

Not everyone builds robots the same. Each member has there own "charm"(or so to say) they put into each build, and that's sort of what determines a user's skill level.
Or something like that.
Title: Re: Idea - 'The Chassis Market'
Post by: HurricaneAndrew on November 05, 2011, 01:05:30 AM
Naryar,i think you need to get the point.
Ill just make this more clear.
I CARE THIS MUCH [],SO DONT BLOODY BOTHER.

I say we ban this arrogant little bastard... Again.
Title: Re: Idea - 'The Chassis Market'
Post by: RpJk on November 05, 2011, 02:06:01 AM
Naryar,i think you need to get the point.
Ill just make this more clear.
I CARE THIS MUCH [],SO DONT BLOODY BOTHER.

I say we ban this arrogant little bastard... Again.

Youre going to get banned for language.
Title: Re: Idea - 'The Chassis Market'
Post by: Mr. AS on November 05, 2011, 09:49:39 AM
Naryar,i think you need to get the point.
Ill just make this more clear.
I CARE THIS MUCH [],SO DONT BLOODY BOTHER.

I say we ban this arrogant little bastard... Again.

Youre going to get banned for language.
You don't get banned for foul language, only a 25 (iirc) percent warn. He didn't say the f word so he's fine...


Would this be for stock or DSL?
Title: Re: Idea - 'The Chassis Market'
Post by: TeamXtreemer on November 05, 2011, 10:14:27 AM
Naryar,i think you need to get the point.
Ill just make this more clear.
I CARE THIS MUCH [],SO DONT BLOODY BOTHER.

I say we ban this arrogant little bastard... Again.

Youre going to get banned for language.
You don't get banned for foul language, only a 25 (iirc) percent warn. He didn't say the f word so he's fine...


Would this be for stock or DSL?
Both.
Title: Re: Idea - 'The Chassis Market'
Post by: Natef on November 05, 2011, 04:40:42 PM
Just don't do it.

It will not work out.
Title: Re: Idea - 'The Chassis Market'
Post by: Mr. AS on November 05, 2011, 04:47:33 PM

Hey, if he wants to make a pack of a bunch of empty chassis's that maybe a few people will download, let him do it...
Title: Re: Idea - 'The Chassis Market'
Post by: Natef on November 05, 2011, 04:50:06 PM
It won't help him at all, but maybe it could do a tiny bit of good.
Title: Re: Idea - 'The Chassis Market'
Post by: TeamXtreemer on November 05, 2011, 04:51:58 PM
It won't help him at all, but maybe it could do a tiny bit of good.
Im not trying to help ME.
Title: Re: Idea - 'The Chassis Market'
Post by: Clickbeetle on November 11, 2011, 10:31:29 PM
You guys are making this way more complicated than it needs to be.
 
First of all, it's ALREADY BEEN DONE when Ianh05 released his AW chassis.
 
Second of all, there's no need to make a whole subforum with chassis moderators and whatnot, or even an official pack.  If you come up with a good generic chassis that can be used in other designs, just post it on the bot exchange.  If it's useful, people will download it.
 
And thirdly, the idea that posting generic empty chassises will somehow reduce bot diversity or eliminate skill from bot building is mostly reactionary nonsense.  Very few bots can actually use the same chassis efficiently, at least in stock.  I don't think I've ever been able to re-use a chassis in stock.  And those bots that CAN re-use the same chassis efficiently are always either inherently generic anyway (like the Pyscolone popup) or the ones with a pint-sized battery box and everything else external.  99% of the skill involved is in all that external stuff, not designing the battery box.
Title: Re: Idea - 'The Chassis Market'
Post by: TeamXtreemer on November 12, 2011, 07:35:01 AM
You guys are making this way more complicated than it needs to be.
 
First of all, it's ALREADY BEEN DONE when Ianh05 released his AW chassis.
 
Second of all, there's no need to make a whole subforum with chassis moderators and whatnot, or even an official pack.  If you come up with a good generic chassis that can be used in other designs, just post it on the bot exchange.  If it's useful, people will download it.
 
And thirdly, the idea that posting generic empty chassises will somehow reduce bot diversity or eliminate skill from bot building is mostly reactionary nonsense.  Very few bots can actually use the same chassis efficiently, at least in stock.  I don't think I've ever been able to re-use a chassis in stock.  And those bots that CAN re-use the same chassis efficiently are always either inherently generic anyway (like the Pyscolone popup) or the ones with a pint-sized battery box and everything else external.  99% of the skill involved is in all that external stuff, not designing the battery box.
Fair enough.