Author Topic: Chinese RACOON Tournament (Video Links Included)  (Read 1922 times)

Offline MoonSet416

  • Antweight
  • Posts: 18
  • Rep: 1
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Chinese RACOON Tournament (Video Links Included)
« on: May 19, 2019, 04:06:23 AM »
This thread includes:
RACOON Tournament1, splash, videos
RACOON Tournament2, splash, videos
RACOON Tournament3, splash, videos

This thread will include in the future:
RACOON Tournament 4
RACOON Version of DSL2.2 (called DSL2.25e1 currently)
RACOON Ruleset

So I thought I might as well make a separate thread about this.

You guys asked for videos, and you get them (sort of). Unfortunately despite me living outside of the GFW, my internet is just too slow for big uploads. Luckily 张, the man behind those splashes stepped up and uploaded some videos to a Chinese weeb site called Bilibili.

Tips: click the video to play, click the nuclear icon on the bottom right corner of the video to go fullscreen, and use the list on the right to choose which fight to watch.

The time was Sep 2018. This is where it all started (sort of). The Chinese community had existed for quite some time at this point but there was never a tournament. Robot development was slow and member count was also not that great. I joined around this time mainly to find a driving simulator before the Robowars Australia event at the end of September. Some community members one day had an idea of hosting an AI tournament, and we had the first RACOON tournament.


First tournament: https://www.bilibili.com/video/av52951834
https://challonge.com/RACCON2018NDOrgnl
Replica division: https://www.bilibili.com/video/av52955208
https://challonge.com/RACCON2018NDRplc

The name RACOON was a cheesy forced acronym stands for Robot Arena 2 Combat Competition Of Original Non-cheatbot2. Before the first tournament most of the robots never saw any other player robots and were only required to win against stock AI with the only exceptions being Hyperforce, 4X4flipper, and K2. The first tournament also had an IRL-ish replica tournament, but it was cancelled due to technical issues. Robot development basically exploded after this with the release of the AI bots from the first tournament.



Second tournament exhibition matches: https://www.bilibili.com/video/av52957127
Second tournament group stage (1): https://www.bilibili.com/video/av52966203
https://challonge.com/RACCONNYE18
Second Tournament group stage (2) & elimination stage: https://www.bilibili.com/video/av52967320
https://challonge.com/RACCON201819NEFinal

The pre-season exhibition matches were held right before the second tournament. You can already sort of see what was to come in terms of vertical spinners in the form of NKVD (built by Xseal), the prototype of many large diameter vertical spinners that would come later. The second tournament was also when swiss army bots really took off, and I got a taste of it in RePretender (my bot, a clone of Hyperforce, which is a replica of Bite Force) vs ein fleischwolf. I was lead to believe that I was fighting a vertical spinner, while my opponent actually had an overhead SOW-style bar and I got my face ripped off. Modular bots added a lot of unpredictability to the tournament in that you never know what you are fighting next (even more fun when you have a modular bot of your own). This later lead to some modular robots having modules that are general purpose to counter an unknown threat. The second tournament was also the only tournament to see the use of multibots. They were then banned in later tournaments due to the fact that the preferred arena would spawn the two multibots on opposite sides of the arena, which is unrealistic and unfair to the single bot. In terms of ground clearance, a lot of new robots saw the success of Hyperforce and jumped onto the hinged wedgelets train (similar to the 2019 season of Battlebots, funny eh?), but very few have come close to contending with Hyperforce2 in terms of ground clearance. Speaking of HF2, it was actually voted into the eliminator stage as a wild card after losing its group stage (god I wish I hadn't voted for it).





Third Tournament Heavyweight Division Group Stage: https://www.bilibili.com/video/av53288682
Third Tournament Heavyweight Elimination (Final) Stage, and Exhibition Matches: https://www.bilibili.com/video/av53289312
Third Tournament Sportsman Division: https://www.bilibili.com/video/av53291914

The third event was the first time sportsman robot saw action. You guys have been asking what the sportsman division is all about and the best way to figure out would be to watch actual builds battle each other. Ruleset is still in the works but is mostly in line with real life regulations (mainly wedges and spinners). Due to the limited time, each builder only had access to three slots. Each slot can be a new machine or a module/alternative form of an existing machine. This slot rule was in place for the 2nd tournament as well but three slots presented builders with a much greater challenge to balance the number of machines and the amount of module each individual machine could have. Some builders opted to enter three different machines, some only one. I personally entered two machines into the heavyweight division, with one of them being an experimental general-purpose non-modular vertical spinner (MainBattleVerticalDisc) and the other being a more traditional vertical spinner with two modules optimized to fight vertical and horizontal spinners respectively.

The tournament format was a two-stage round robin with five groups of five robots. Winners of each group advanced to the winner's round robin.

After the advent of large diameter vertical spinners in the second season, we saw a great number of similar robots being introduced for the third event. Despite the short preparation time between the two events many different variants of the large verticals were made. Nuke3 had wedgelets for ground clearance while having a large vertical spinner. There are also a series of large verticals that focused on having the largest footprint possible (with large chassis and long extender bits sticking out) to compensate for the massive amount of gyroscopic effect. Horizontal spinners also received some love in the form of hinged spinners. Previously on AK12 and AN94 we saw chunks of chassis connected to the center module by hinges for some shock mounting effect. This new generation of hinged spinners took it to the next level be isolating the spinner motor and spinner from the rest of the robot.

« Last Edit: May 22, 2019, 09:53:08 PM by MoonSet416 »

Offline TheRoboteer

  • Mr Big Blue Flipper
  • *
  • Posts: 1587
  • Rep: 9
  • "I HATE SEBASTIAN COE!"
  • Awards Donated money for site hosting 2021
    • View Profile
    • Awards
  • Discord: TheRoboteer#8784
Re: Chinese RACOON Tournament (Video Links Included)
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2019, 04:51:08 AM »
Notable Tournament Performances:
The Beginner's Guide to IRL:
https://gametechmods.com/forums/tutorials-and-tips/irl-a-beginner's-guide

Offline botbuster

  • Razer
  • Middleweight
  • Posts: 270
  • Rep: -19
  • welcome back to robot wars
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Chinese RACOON Tournament (Video Links Included)
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2019, 04:52:53 AM »
RA2 Awards Most Enthusiastic 2023
Tournament Records and Rewards

Offline Billy5545

  • Best Newcomer 2018
  • Posts: 796
  • Rep: 4
    • View Profile
    • Awards
  • See profile for gamer tags: Yes
  • Discord: Kendor#3191
Re: Chinese RACOON Tournament (Video Links Included)
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2019, 07:03:39 PM »

Offline MoonSet416

  • Antweight
  • Posts: 18
  • Rep: 1
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Chinese RACOON Tournament (Video Links Included)
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2019, 09:15:52 PM »
Yeah that would be great. We are currently working on finalizing our version and uploading it so that you guys can see what works in the altered version and hopefully enter some machines into our comp. Rulesets will also be translated at some point and be uploaded.

As for the tournaments here on GTM, our community members have expressed quite some interest in the tournaments you guys are running here (and some robots we have are already kinda IRL-compliant).

Offline Mystic2000

  • Utter Edgelord
  • Super Heavyweight
  • Posts: 1031
  • Rep: 0
  • Used to suck at IRL, probably still does.
    • View Profile
    • Awards
  • Skype: bastien.bourgon
Re: Chinese RACOON Tournament (Video Links Included)
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2019, 08:15:05 AM »
gotta say, that was probably the most entertained i've been watching a RA2 comp in a while, the big spinner hits are really cool to watch, althought i can understand people like TheRoboteer arguing to stay with unboosted motors for better balance, cause it does seem quite hard to tank the hits for long

only watched most of season one so far, really a fan of Bowie and AK-12 in particular, might ask this to you and all the GTMers who are/watched this, what's your favorite machine(s) ?

i'd absolutely join whatever your next tournament is if that's a possibility, it'd be fun, considering trying either a Valkyrie style undercutter (but stability will probably force me to can that idea very fast),or maybe a overhead a bit like AK-12, not sure yet, but your modded version will sure be cool to mess with
Robocraft Username: Bob5768
PSN Username: Bob5768

Offline MoonSet416

  • Antweight
  • Posts: 18
  • Rep: 1
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Chinese RACOON Tournament (Video Links Included)
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2019, 09:03:13 AM »
Aha, we noticed the same thing with robots not able to tank too many hits. The versions you see being played in those videos were on a slightly older version, with boosted motors and boosted HP for a select few components (namely DSL bars, the sides of FBS spinners, and weapon teeth). However, these components are quite limited in what shape can be made out of them. The new version we are currently working on (hopefully will be uploaded to here and used in the fifth tournament) includes an extensive rebalancing to most parts that could be used as armor, with IRL plates/wedges being the main focus. Most of the components in the current version have the same HP to weight ratio if they are the same archetype, for example an IRL plate and a DSL bar (modified in this version with all damage numbers removed so it's just pure armor) both have like 5000HP per kg or smth like that.

Another thing we are currently working on is the ruleset itself. In the fourth tournament in particular there were two consecutive fights where AI basically misbehaved and altered the outcome of those fights. In one of the fights one robot ran into the wall for no reason while ignoring the opponent, which wasn't in the same direction at all. We are still discussing if they should be treated like physics malfunctions like robots clipping into the ground, as AI malfunctions are harder for the average player to spot beforehand (in fact, most players in our community cannot write AI so the actual fight would be the first time they see their bot driven by AI), and can change the outcome of a fight in an unfair way, just like physics bugs.

Offline Mystic2000

  • Utter Edgelord
  • Super Heavyweight
  • Posts: 1031
  • Rep: 0
  • Used to suck at IRL, probably still does.
    • View Profile
    • Awards
  • Skype: bastien.bourgon
Re: Chinese RACOON Tournament (Video Links Included)
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2019, 09:40:58 AM »
buffed armor sounds good, we could end up with really cool matches between a big spinner and a tanky wedge sending said spinner flying across the arena from sheer ramming force, or see a clamp just manhandling a vert for most of the match

i don't have recent memories of AI glitches being something that had to be dealt with in a GTM comp but i think they should fall under the same ruling as physics glitches since in both cases a problem in the game is unfairly shifting the match torwards one bot

Robocraft Username: Bob5768
PSN Username: Bob5768

Offline MoonSet416

  • Antweight
  • Posts: 18
  • Rep: 1
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Chinese RACOON Tournament (Video Links Included)
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2019, 10:11:56 AM »
Yeah big spinner vs big wedge is always nice to watch. Rammers are rare in our tournament though because AIs cannot effectively drive robots that are too fast for some reason. Clampers have seen some limited success. Z3 is a horizontal clamper with a vertical, which did quite well. Where clampers see the most success was actually in the sportsman division. In open division clampers will have to fight for lower ground clearance, which is a fight they might win, but when they win they are in general less efficient at exploiting the fact that they just got under their opponents, compared to let's say a vert. And a lot other weapon types are pretty much in the same boat (in game and in real life). It is hard to justify not to put a vertical spinner on a wedge. We then created a sportsman division for pretty much the same reasons as in the real world. But then within the sportsman division there's still a meta, players just had to find the next best thing, and clampers seems to be just that.

Offline pokebro14

  • Your mother
  • Super Heavyweight
  • Posts: 1091
  • Rep: 3
  • Interior crocodile alligator 🤔
  • Awards BOTM Winner
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Chinese RACOON Tournament (Video Links Included)
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2019, 10:42:37 AM »
Some of these bots are really cool.
Some of them could use some colour with the DSC coloured parts but overall I really like these.
Achievements and tournament placings

Offline botbuster

  • Razer
  • Middleweight
  • Posts: 270
  • Rep: -19
  • welcome back to robot wars
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Chinese RACOON Tournament (Video Links Included)
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2019, 11:55:17 AM »
« Last Edit: May 20, 2019, 06:43:26 PM by Plerco »
RA2 Awards Most Enthusiastic 2023
Tournament Records and Rewards

Offline MoonSet416

  • Antweight
  • Posts: 18
  • Rep: 1
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Chinese RACOON Tournament (Video Links Included)
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2019, 09:37:46 AM »
Some of these bots are really cool.
Some of them could use some colour with the DSC coloured parts but overall I really like these.

Yep, with the balancing changes brought by the latest version (still WIP as we are add stuff from RWmod and some of our own stuff), using those colorful IRL plates makes total sense now. I will probably keep my black and white color scheme though because I can't be bothered to scroll down the menu B&W just looks cool.

Offline botbuster

  • Razer
  • Middleweight
  • Posts: 270
  • Rep: -19
  • welcome back to robot wars
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Chinese RACOON Tournament (Video Links Included)
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2019, 11:46:39 AM »
Maybe you could release the RACOON AI after you put up everything you said you are going to add (RACOON 3 and 4, RACOON's DSL and Ruleset)?
RA2 Awards Most Enthusiastic 2023
Tournament Records and Rewards

Offline pokebro14

  • Your mother
  • Super Heavyweight
  • Posts: 1091
  • Rep: 3
  • Interior crocodile alligator 🤔
  • Awards BOTM Winner
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Chinese RACOON Tournament (Video Links Included)
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2019, 01:22:53 PM »
Crazy idea but what if we have a tournament of GTM vs The chinese racoon tournament thing?
Achievements and tournament placings

Offline Dreamcast

  • Posts: 1431
  • Rep: 1
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Chinese RACOON Tournament (Video Links Included)
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2019, 06:44:34 PM »
Racon isn't a forced acronym, the first AI tournament was named after beans and the organizer had to add a second B.

[post about clamps]

How do your clamps work? Aren't they essentially just hammers? I once saw someone in vanilla RA2 build a clamp by taking sideways-hammers and having them open/close like a door.

Crazy idea but what if we have a tournament of GTM vs The chinese racoon tournament thing?

How would this work exactly? Would we use our rules, their rules? Who would host it? Would it be a regular thing or a one-off?

Offline MoonSet416

  • Antweight
  • Posts: 18
  • Rep: 1
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Chinese RACOON Tournament (Video Links Included)
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2019, 07:27:46 PM »
Maybe you could release the RACOON AI after you put up everything you said you are going to add (RACOON 3 and 4, RACOON's DSL and Ruleset)?
Yeah we're doing it, it just takes time. We would like to do it right with the first try. Video release isn't really handled by me unfortunately, will let the person in charge know.

Offline MoonSet416

  • Antweight
  • Posts: 18
  • Rep: 1
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Chinese RACOON Tournament (Video Links Included)
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2019, 07:32:33 PM »
The horizontal clamp I mentioned was more like two wedge-claws that flank the target when activated without the robot itself flanking the target (given that the target isn't too wide). The vertical clamp IIRC made an appearance in season 2 and was called Bite A Piece. BAP was more like most real life clamp-lifters and later went on to participate in the sportsman competition to great effect.

Offline MoonSet416

  • Antweight
  • Posts: 18
  • Rep: 1
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Chinese RACOON Tournament (Video Links Included)
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2019, 09:55:04 PM »
Just updated the third tournament. Have a look.

Offline Mystic2000

  • Utter Edgelord
  • Super Heavyweight
  • Posts: 1031
  • Rep: 0
  • Used to suck at IRL, probably still does.
    • View Profile
    • Awards
  • Skype: bastien.bourgon
Re: Chinese RACOON Tournament (Video Links Included)
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2019, 04:37:33 AM »
seems the hype died down a bit or something, anyway, sportsman division is a pretty neat idea, sportsman GTM comps should be a thing

round robin is an interesting format, sure works better in games than in real life *cough*Robot Wars Reboot*cough*

any updates on the modded version you guys are working on ? (sorry if it sounds insistent, i'm just really looking forward to be able to use it
Robocraft Username: Bob5768
PSN Username: Bob5768

Offline MoonSet416

  • Antweight
  • Posts: 18
  • Rep: 1
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Chinese RACOON Tournament (Video Links Included)
« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2019, 08:23:34 PM »
Sorry the new version is still WIP. Please understand that this version is meant for the fifth event, so we are trying to get as much as we can into the thing. We are currently working on putting RWmod features in there (more armor thickness options, some realistic looking weapons, etc.)