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Robot Arena => Showcases => Custom Components Showcase => Topic started by: g2geo94 on October 20, 2014, 07:53:08 PM

Title: Geo's Return and Noobcase
Post by: g2geo94 on October 20, 2014, 07:53:08 PM: So I'm back. ~~From a hiatus so long some of you may not even remember me.~~ And because I feel too limited under the 800kg limit, I did not feel like my bot belonged in Stock. (I've used a few other modifications found in the downloads section as well). So here I am, in all my noobishness, with a new robot design. I dubbed it The Duster originally, but I don't feel like that's quite so fitting anymore. I just can't think of a good title for the thing now. Thoughts?

(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/56094screenshot.24.jpg)
(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/78546screenshot.25.jpg)
~~Ignore the cursor hanging out there~~ :dead:
(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/73914screenshot.26.jpg)
(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/50503screenshot.29.jpg)

Non-visible Details:
Three SuperVolts visible, I got two more stacked before I lost patience
I'm using the Steel Square Extenders throughout the robot for all external pieces
Title: Re: Geo's Return and Noobcase
Post by: RedSawn on October 20, 2014, 08:10:03 PM: Well, it's a bit of a mess. Everything's all over the place, Redbirds are poor, N12s are wasted weight if they don't serve to keep your bot invertible, high ground clearance, square extenders look far cooler but are essentially useless compared to round extenders, saws in stock, vulnerable to wedges.

This is all assuming this is stock and not custom superparts that turn it into a invincible chariot of death, though. In which case constructive commentry/criticism would go out the window.
Title: Re: Geo's Return and Noobcase
Post by: Mr. AS on October 20, 2014, 08:26:37 PM: Quote from: RedlineM203 on October 20, 2014, 08:10:03 PM
N12s are wasted weight
Yeah, pretty much.

If you're trying to get better at RA2, just choose a bot type and stick with it. None of this "it's gonna be, like, FIVE different bots dude!" nonsense, that doesn't work out in your favor very often. You might be able to get 2 types or 3 at the most on a single bot.

Keep all your weapons facing the front. AI doesn't drive around to your back and PvP online just isn't a thing apart from AI tournaments.

You're also 111.1 kg overweight.
Title: Re: Geo's Return and Noobcase
Post by: Badnik96 on October 20, 2014, 09:06:15 PM: Hey welcome back dude. I just barely remember you from years and years ago.

To start with positives, it looks like you have empty space management down to a degree. Just don't make a box and fill it up with stuff, have an idea of what you're going to build before you build it, so you have an idea of what the chassis should be like.
Title: Re: Geo's Return and Noobcase
Post by: Naryar on October 21, 2014, 03:44:45 AM: i do not remember you at all.

Also I will merge your old showcase with this one.

that building is kinda... intredasting because hybrids
Title: Re: Geo's Return and Noobcase
Post by: g2geo94 on October 21, 2014, 04:02:46 PM: Thank you Badnik.

Okay, so I'm taking note here on all of your recommendations, and I'm left with a few questions:
I have to ask: is the apparent hatred of square extenders purely aesthetic? I downloaded from the Custom Components the Steel Square Extender thinking it might be best choice given its description.
I have chosen the Red Birds for the saved space, since it was my intention to have burst motors for the front and both sides (helpful for battles against multiple robots), but would it be better to just go with the ZTeks regardless?
The N12s I put on because I had completely forgotten which wheels actually were best and those seemed "okay enough"
I went for the weight because I just wanted to get all of my ideas out there firstly.

My ultimate goal here is to create a bot that can use the hammer style attacks competitively. I do intend on having LAN battles using this game inside my house.

Naryar, I appreciate that. I was going to resume from my old showcase, but I hadn't been here in so long that it appears those posts may have dropped off my list.
Title: Re: Geo's Return and Noobcase
Post by: Lemonism on October 21, 2014, 04:11:44 PM: Quote from: g2geo94 on October 21, 2014, 04:02:46 PM
Okay, so I'm taking note here on all of your recommendations, and I'm left with a few questions:
I have to ask: is the apparent hatred of square extenders purely aesthetic? I downloaded from the Custom Components the Steel Square Extender thinking it might be best choice given its description.
I have chosen the Red Birds for the saved space, since it was my intention to have burst motors for the front and both sides (helpful for battles against multiple robots), but would it be better to just go with the ZTeks regardless?
The N12s I put on because I had completely forgotten which wheels actually were best and those seemed "okay enough"
In Stock RA2 square extenders have the same hitpoints as round ones, but weigh more. If you downloaded a new custom one it might be tougher, though, but if you're just using the vanilla components go for the round extenders.
Red birds are not really powerful enough for heavyweight drive for the most part, so go for HP Zteks whenever possible. You don't really want to be concentrating your weapons anywhere except the front of your robot, because that's where you'll take most of your hits and where you want most of the damage to be done.
N12's are pretty heavy and not especially tough for the weight, shiny hub wheels are the lightest so it's best to go for those. They're also smaller, which is good for ground clearance and wedges.

There are some good hammer robots out there, you might want to look at some of the hammers KOS has made recently. You'll find them in his Stock Showcase. Example:

(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/57872Compiler.jpg)
Title: Re: Geo's Return and Noobcase
Post by: cephalopod on October 21, 2014, 04:21:58 PM: Quote from: g2geo94 on October 21, 2014, 04:02:46 PM
I downloaded from the Custom Components the Steel Square Extender thinking it might be best choice given its description.

Honestly if you're playing with custom components you shouldn't be worrying about how good/strong the components are, because the bots will never have a purpose outside of aesthetics or your own in-game stuff as they can't be used in 99% of tournaments.
Title: Re: Geo's Return and Noobcase
Post by: RedSawn on October 21, 2014, 05:01:46 PM: Quote from: g2geo94 on October 21, 2014, 04:02:46 PM
Okay, so I'm taking note here on all of your recommendations, and I'm left with a few questions:
I have to ask: is the apparent hatred of square extenders purely aesthetic? I downloaded from the Custom Components the Steel Square Extender thinking it might be best choice given its description.
I have chosen the Red Birds for the saved space, since it was my intention to have burst motors for the front and both sides (helpful for battles against multiple robots), but would it be better to just go with the ZTeks regardless?
The N12s I put on because I had completely forgotten which wheels actually were best and those seemed "okay enough"

- Don't get me wrong, I'd use the stock square extenders over the round ones any day, if they had any benefit other then looking cooler. The problem is they weigh 5kg for every 20cm, compared to the round extenders' 2kg for every 20cm. They aren't any tougher, or any other sort of statistical or tactical benefit - they just look nice, at the cost of a whole lot of extra weight. Extra weight that can be used to add more weapons.
- Redbirds aren't worth their weight and long dimensions. Everyone would just go for the Z-Tek, yeah. Plan your bot around your components, not the components around your bot.
- There's two go-to wheels in stock - Shiny Hubs for the saved weight, and Rubber Wheels because they offer virtually perfect (if not perfect) ground clearance on a Z-Tek motor. There's no grip differences or HP differences like in DSL. The other wheels rank on a scale from niche uses to useless.
Title: Re: Geo's Return and Noobcase
Post by: g2geo94 on October 22, 2014, 05:36:05 PM: Okay, so this is what I'm currently looking at after the critiques.
(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/55448screenshot.33.jpg)
Try and try as I did, I could not get the plows closer without either a) making them overlap, or b ) having them off center (personal peeve).
I've placed the small snapper 2 up top as a self-righting mechanism, and it has worked well in the AI fights I did.
I've tried out a few different weapons, but I'm failing to find any that seem to be doing the damage my original design with the motorized saw blade was able to perform. I have resized this robot multiple times, but this seems to be the smallest I can get the chassis given the current layout.
It is running as a two-wheel tank drive and under the ZTek HPs, is extremely responsive. I've been trying to stack the blacks, but all of my attempts on this bot have failed with my loss of patience.
Title: Re: Geo's Return and Noobcase
Post by: RedAce on October 22, 2014, 07:25:19 PM: Welcome back, even though I don't even remember you.

For that kind of bot, here's some improvements I'd work on along with the others that have posted:

-Angle connectors aren't the most efficient way to build a bot since they only have one attachment point. Try to rotate the round extenders to a point where they used effectively, and use another round extender to attach the weapons and the plows.
-Don't use a separate burst motor for the self-righting mechanism. Use another extender that's longer which is more capable to help it get back on it's feet.
-Try to build until you reach the weight limit. Like attaching wedges on burst motors to help get a hold of your opponent, or try to attach something that will stabilize the bot so it doesn't jump around a lot when trying to attack.

Those are some of the major tips I can give to help improve this bot in particular. In case you are wondering on how you could improve your building skills, check out the Beetle Bros RA2 Building Techniques Site you can find right here:

http://beetlebros.gametechmods.com/ra2techs.htm (http://beetlebros.gametechmods.com/ra2techs.htm)

It provides detailed tutorials on how to build a good bot in general and has tips that I have said, but it shows good examples on how my suggestions can work.

Hopefully, I have helped out.
Title: Re: Geo's Return and Noobcase
Post by: R1885 on October 22, 2014, 07:25:21 PM: 1: While Rubbers are good in conjunction with wedges, on non-wedged robots they're a waste of weight. Shiny Hubs are better when wedges are not involved.
2: Angle connectors waste weight, smart usage of standard round extenders are far better and can support far more weapons for an equal amount of weight in angle connectors.
3: in terms of weapons, more is better. Razor tips(Like what you're already using) Iron Spikes, and Maces are the to go weapons, while Poll Spikes, Single Sided Icepicks, and Bear Claws are also good choices(They have normals, how ever, so they're kinda limited).
4: Snaper2 burst motors are only really good in very specialized areas, heavy lifting is not one of them. Its better to incorporate the scrimech into the weapon, simplest way is an extender.
5: Straight hammers kinda suck, angled hammers can skip straight to the to top of a robot. They also have the benefit of being able to avoid enemy weapons, saving the fragile extenders.
Title: Re: Geo's Return and Noobcase
Post by: g2geo94 on October 22, 2014, 08:27:43 PM: Quote from: RedAce on October 22, 2014, 07:25:19 PM
Try to rotate the round extenders to a point where they used effectively, and use another round extender to attach the weapons and the plows.

Do you have any recommendations on the best way to do this? It's this reason I liked the square connectors since it lessened the amount of guesswork.
Is there maybe a method of determining, before complete attachment, where the side connections will be?
Title: Re: Geo's Return and Noobcase
Post by: rnifnuf on October 22, 2014, 09:06:52 PM: Quote from: g2geo94 on October 22, 2014, 08:27:43 PM
Quote from: RedAce on October 22, 2014, 07:25:19 PM
Try to rotate the round extenders to a point where they used effectively, and use another round extender to attach the weapons and the plows.

Do you have any recommendations on the best way to do this? It's this reason I liked the square connectors since it lessened the amount of guesswork.
Is there maybe a method of determining, before complete attachment, where the side connections will be?
When you rotate the components, the rotation looks choppy. This is because components are rotated by ten degrees per small interval. To rotate something by ninety (90) degrees, rotate the object by ten of these small intervals. Also, press F12 to show the collision meshes of the components. This will show that the collision mesh of the round extender is actually a square, making rotating the extender by 90 degrees easier.

If you really want help, read Clickbeetle's Stock building techniques (http://beetlebros.gametechmods.com/ra2techs.htm) and Component statistics. (http://beetlebros.gametechmods.com/ra2stats.htm) These were made by Clickbeetle, one of Gametechmods' administrators and RA2 genius. Trust any advice he gives.
Title: Re: Geo's Return and Noobcase
Post by: g2geo94 on October 23, 2014, 02:52:29 PM: Quote from: rnifnuf on October 22, 2014, 09:06:52 PM
Also, press F12 to show the collision meshes of the components. This will show that the collision mesh of the round extender is actually a square, making rotating the extender by 90 degrees easier.

Dude, you just made my life like, 100x better with that one line.
Title: Re: Geo's Return and Noobcase
Post by: g2geo94 on October 23, 2014, 03:05:03 PM: Okay, so this is where I now stand in the hammer design.
(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/94459screenshot.34.jpg)
I have attempted to make the chassis as small as possible, but needed to actually add weight so that it doesn't flip itself over everytime I launch the burst motor. Also stacking the weight ballasts is extremely difficult. As well as the supervolts in this tiny space. I am 6 clicks high and (as always) using DSA. ^{armor button you say? what armor button?}

From here, I am wondering what recommendations can be made to improve this design's function. Especially the fact that the hammer falls off far too easily and I am completely lost about spamming more weapons on the hammer's end.
Title: Re: Geo's Return and Noobcase
Post by: Natster-104 on October 23, 2014, 03:18:27 PM: One word. BALLASTS :rage :rage :rage

but other than that, a pretty good start, I'd say you could make that DDT into a snapper2 (the green one, not the blue one) and downgrade it to a middleweight because other HW's will monster that
Title: Re: Geo's Return and Noobcase
Post by: R1885 on October 23, 2014, 03:19:22 PM: 1: Remove the balasts, they only help wedges in extreme cases.
2: Either stuff it to the full weight limit or go back to a middle weight.
3: That puny little iron is not going to help much, either have a rack of weapons or a plow.
Title: Re: Geo's Return and Noobcase
Post by: g2geo94 on October 23, 2014, 03:35:00 PM: Quote from: R1885 on October 23, 2014, 03:19:22 PM
1: Remove the balasts, they only help wedges in extreme cases.
2: Either stuff it to the full weight limit or go back to a middle weight.
3: That puny little iron is not going to help much, either have a rack of weapons or a plow.

Rack of weapons. That's the thing I'm having trouble with. I see people spam weapons on to hammers and to the front of their bots, but I must be missing something because I can never seem to figure out exactly how to concentrate say, 10 razor blades onto a .1 square meter area.
Title: Re: Geo's Return and Noobcase
Post by: R1885 on October 23, 2014, 04:05:38 PM: The trick is learning that weapon hit boxes are easily exploitable, its involves enough fiddling but eventually they fall into place. There's no easy way to describe it, it involves doing.
Title: Re: Geo's Return and Noobcase
Post by: g2geo94 on October 23, 2014, 06:55:13 PM: Redesigned the bot to add just a bit more width up front so that the front weapons could be installed, but now it seems the hammer has a tough time pulling itself back up after taking one or two direct hits. Thoughts?
(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/15052screenshot.36.jpg)
Title: Re: Geo's Return and Noobcase
Post by: rnifnuf on October 23, 2014, 09:46:03 PM: You only need two black batteries for this robot. All spin motors, regardless of their description, only need 1 small battery each to be powered for three minutes and black batteries provide eight times the amperage as a small battery pack. Wedges look good, but I think you should straighten the spike strips using the eFFe glitch. This "eFFe glitch" is demonstrated in a number of video tutorials. Here is a collection of video tutorials for building tricks made by a veteran called Sage. (https://gametechmods.com/forums/index.php?topic=4512.0) Use these in your building. It may also help if your keyboard has a Pause/Break button like mine. Not all keyboards do; this is especially true of laptop keyboards. Pause/Break pauses the game... and then breaks it!

Back to the robot... Drive is fine. It doesn't seem like this is intended to be a rammer/hammer hybrid, so 2WD HPZ with shines (2-wheel drive High-Powered Z-teks with shiny hub wheels) is fine. Razors are one of the best weapons in Stock, so keep those. As for the frontal defense, switch that out for a plow. The axes won't do much damage, so wasting weight on them is pointless. This could help protect the DDT burst a bit more.
Quote from: g2geo94 on October 23, 2014, 06:55:13 PM
but now it seems the hammer has a tough time pulling itself back up after taking one or two direct hits.
You are correct on this; as exposed motors take more damage, their strength decreases. Components attached directly to the chassis can never fall off, but components on extenders or baseplate anchors can. A plow can protect the DDT burst better than that collage of axe heads you currently have. The wide nature of a plow (plus-sized if you will) also protects the narrow portion of the chassis from HS and SnS, two popular types of robots in competitive building. Plows are the norm on hammers, modern and archaic. Don't use ramplates--those, like plows, have 1000HP, so they are less effective at defense. They are still seen on popups because they are very compact.

There is actually a weight class between 400 and 600kg called "Cruiserweight," which your bot falls into, but this class is not very popular. You could keep it a CW or make it a HW or MW.
Title: Re: Geo's Return and Noobcase
Post by: Naryar on October 24, 2014, 07:00:19 AM: Quote from: rnifnuf on October 23, 2014, 09:46:03 PM
It doesn't seem like this is intended to be a rammer/hammer hybrid, so 2WD HPZ with shines (2-wheel drive High-Powered Z-teks with shiny hub wheels) is fine. Razors are one of the best weapons in Stock, so keep those. As for the frontal defense, switch that out for a plow. The axes won't do much damage, so wasting weight on them is pointless. This could help protect the DDT burst a bit more.
the axes don't protect the DDT at all and this is by all means a rammer/hammer hybrid (more like a pusher because it is slow but w/e)

and clearly the fact that the DDT doesn't go up after a few shots is mostly because he has 70-75kg on it

anyways, the frontal rack of weapons is far too thin, make it wider and you have far too much razors on your hammer. keep it at 4 razors, it's fine. also with that setup you should just remove one or even two black batteries (if you remove two you should add a Supervolt though)

it does look nice though, but a concentrated rammer design on a rammer/hammer hybrid is a very bad idea. by definition hammer/rammers need to pin their opponent and you can't do that with a rack that small. You'll just end up losing to the first HS you meet.

despite this design's flaws i see you are making quite some progress on your building technique, well done !
Title: Re: Geo's Return and Noobcase
Post by: HurricaneAndrew on October 26, 2014, 11:18:56 AM: Quote from: rnifnuf on October 23, 2014, 09:46:03 PM
All spin motors, regardless of their description, only need 1 small battery each to be powered for three minutes

I don't think this rule applies in stock.
Title: Re: Geo's Return and Noobcase
Post by: rnifnuf on October 26, 2014, 12:47:19 PM: Quote from: HurricaneAndrew on October 26, 2014, 11:18:56 AM
Quote from: rnifnuf on October 23, 2014, 09:46:03 PM
All spin motors, regardless of their description, only need 1 small battery each to be powered for three minutes

I don't think this rule applies in stock.
It does, and this is because DSL (which I bet you had in mind) is just Stock with different components. Also, Ant batteries and Pinks have the same elecMaxInOutRate: 100. The only way to alter the effect of battery mechanics requires RA2's source code, which the community did not have in 2006 and does not have today.

Quote from: Naryar on October 24, 2014, 07:00:19 AM
also with that setup you should just remove one or even two black batteries (if you remove two you should add a Supervolt though)
O mighty Naryar, I mean not to rustle thous jimmies, but a black battery is a Supervolt. Perhaps, thous intention was to reference the Nifty.
Title: Re: Geo's Return and Noobcase
Post by: 090901 on October 26, 2014, 12:54:15 PM: Quote from: rnifnuf on October 26, 2014, 12:47:19 PM
Quote from: HurricaneAndrew on October 26, 2014, 11:18:56 AM
Quote from: rnifnuf on October 23, 2014, 09:46:03 PM
All spin motors, regardless of their description, only need 1 small battery each to be powered for three minutes

I don't think this rule applies in stock.
It does, and this is because DSL (which I bet you had in mind) is just Stock with different components. Also, Ant batteries and Pinks have the same elecMaxInOutRate: 100. The only way to alter the effect of battery mechanics requires RA2's source code, which the community did not have in 2006 and does not have today.
Pinks suck, they have no total power at all, that's why they run out so fast. Ants are good because they have the same amount of total power as all other batteries in DSL
Title: Re: Geo's Return and Noobcase
Post by: rnifnuf on October 26, 2014, 12:59:02 PM: Quote from: 090901 on October 26, 2014, 12:54:15 PM
Quote from: rnifnuf on October 26, 2014, 12:47:19 PM
Quote from: HurricaneAndrew on October 26, 2014, 11:18:56 AM
Quote from: rnifnuf on October 23, 2014, 09:46:03 PM
All spin motors, regardless of their description, only need 1 small battery each to be powered for three minutes

I don't think this rule applies in stock.
It does, and this is because DSL (which I bet you had in mind) is just Stock with different components. Also, Ant batteries and Pinks have the same elecMaxInOutRate: 100. The only way to alter the effect of battery mechanics requires RA2's source code, which the community did not have in 2006 and does not have today.
Pinks suck, they have no total power at all, that's why they run out so fast. Ants are good because they have the same amount of total power as all other batteries in DSL
True, but they still have enough EMIOR to, in theory, supply a single spin motor with power for three minutes. I recognize that Nifties and Supervolts are superior batteries for anything.
Title: Re: Geo's Return and Noobcase
Post by: Mr. AS on October 26, 2014, 02:21:22 PM: 1 spin motor = 1 pink or 2 pinks
2 spin motors = 2 pinks or nifty
3 spin motors = nifty
4 spin motors = nifty (recommended) or black
5-8 spin motors = black, black+pink, black+nifty or 2 blacks
9 spin motors = black + pink, black + nifty or 2 blacks
10-11 spin motors = black + nifty or 2 blacks
12 spin motors = 2 black
13+ spin motors = ::badidea

Each spin motor is 100 imput, snapper2 is 300 imput, DDT is 500 imput. SnapperII isn't used for weapons but it's something like 400 or 500 imput. Just don't use the blue snapperII for weapons.
Pink is 100 output, nifty is 400 output, black is 800 output. Rammers, hammers and popups generally require less excess input than HS/SnS.

At least for AW - HW anyway.

This:
Quote from: g2geo94 on October 23, 2014, 06:55:13 PM
(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/15052screenshot.36.jpg)
would need 1 black. 200+500=700, or one 800 output black battery.

e: There's no custom components on these bots any more. Why is this in custom showcase?
Title: Re: Geo's Return and Noobcase
Post by: g2geo94 on July 12, 2017, 03:37:33 PM: So I’m back once again, and with a group of friends, we decided to build bots for a local tourny we’re creating. One of the member of this little group and myself, we stayed up till the wee hours of the morning making bots, and I’d like to get some feedback on my current proudest creation. Presenting,

Flips are Flipping Fun
Imgur album: http://imgur.com/a/rHjST (or just follow along below)

(http://i.imgur.com/9wKwhvt.jpg)
The latest RA2 bot by G2geo94 featuring a razor tip through each wheel, and EMERGENCY's flippers (with some added razor there)

(http://i.imgur.com/pOCwQ28.jpg)
It is modded, just a bit of Component Freedom fun.

(http://i.imgur.com/lhXclHl.jpg)
The rear Snapper2 doubles as a quite destructive hammer and a flip for the bot itself. Proved its worth in many a battle.

(http://i.imgur.com/rzlkmhQ.jpg)
Those ram plates helped prevent hammers and rammers alike from striking this bot in what would otherwise have been this bot's end.

(http://i.imgur.com/6RxVAqv.jpg)
Obligatory "I hate lining up red extenders" quip

(http://i.imgur.com/eWcHa0X.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/RtjwqrA.jpg)
Let me know what you guys think
Title: Re: Geo's Return and Noobcase
Post by: WeN on July 13, 2017, 02:11:03 AM: >Stock
>Custom Components Showcase

Post this in stock showcase section instead.

Anyway I have no comment while this bot use RA2CF
Title: Re: Geo's Return and Noobcase
Post by: g2geo94 on July 13, 2017, 02:21:36 AM: >Stock
>But using Component Freedom

Still belongs in Stock though?
Title: Re: Geo's Return and Noobcase
Post by: Pwnator on July 13, 2017, 04:13:20 AM: My criteria for location of showcases pretty much just depends on the most used mod. If you keep on using CF, the showcase is just fine located in Custom Components. Should you start making stock bots without CF though, you'll just have to either create a new thread in Stock Showcases or request a thread transfer.

I'm not quite sure how competitive you want the bot to be. CF enables a lot of potential for stacking components, enabling you to create deadlier designs with less chassis complexity and extender work. Either way, I do recommend a shallower chassis slope if you want it to flip more effectively.