Author Topic: RA2 CHALLENGE THREAD - DISCUSSIONS  (Read 260874 times)

Offline Badnik96

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Re: RA2 CHALLENGE THREAD - DISCUSSIONS
« Reply #1780 on: September 30, 2017, 01:23:29 PM »
i like this more than what we have now

can we also pre-emptively ban irl from counting for these challenges because it goes directly against how irl was intended to work

No. It's the most popular meta, there is no reason to exclude it. IRL may be designed for looks but it's also good for building in a more realistic manner than DSL-S allows, and if you want to make cool bots instead of competitive bots you shouldn't be trying to obtain the Challenge Belt.

irl was literally created for the sake of nice looking robots

if you're prioritizing competitiveness over looks you arent building irl

also, maybe this will see a renaissance in literally every other metagame which have been quietly dying for over a year


i see no reason to outright ban irl challenges if people want to have them, just dont have them count towards the challenge belt

Offline dragonsteincole

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Re: RA2 CHALLENGE THREAD - DISCUSSIONS
« Reply #1781 on: September 30, 2017, 01:43:48 PM »
That feels like quite a heavy handed decision to just ban a meta outright for not understanding it. Glad it just applies to the Challenge Board at least.

Apparently Sage has cleared this up to mean IRL is banned from the Challenge title stuff. IRL challenges can still occur, just not for the title. Which isn't as bad as the post made out to be.

Offline Badger

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Re: RA2 CHALLENGE THREAD - DISCUSSIONS
« Reply #1782 on: September 30, 2017, 01:55:54 PM »
i like this more than what we have now

can we also pre-emptively ban irl from counting for these challenges because it goes directly against how irl was intended to work

No. It's the most popular meta, there is no reason to exclude it. IRL may be designed for looks but it's also good for building in a more realistic manner than DSL-S allows, and if you want to make cool bots instead of competitive bots you shouldn't be trying to obtain the Challenge Belt.

irl was literally created for the sake of nice looking robots

if you're prioritizing competitiveness over looks you arent building irl

also, maybe this will see a renaissance in literally every other metagame which have been quietly dying for over a year


i see no reason to outright ban irl challenges if people want to have them, just dont have them count towards the challenge belt
You realise that you can make nice looking IRL bots that can actually fight too, right? That's literally what I've been doing for the past year or so.
also lol at most toxic guy around calling others out on this sh**
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Offline TheRoboteer

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Re: RA2 CHALLENGE THREAD - DISCUSSIONS
« Reply #1783 on: September 30, 2017, 01:59:09 PM »
i like this more than what we have now

can we also pre-emptively ban irl from counting for these challenges because it goes directly against how irl was intended to work

No. It's the most popular meta, there is no reason to exclude it. IRL may be designed for looks but it's also good for building in a more realistic manner than DSL-S allows, and if you want to make cool bots instead of competitive bots you shouldn't be trying to obtain the Challenge Belt.

irl was literally created for the sake of nice looking robots

if you're prioritizing competitiveness over looks you arent building irl

also, maybe this will see a renaissance in literally every other metagame which have been quietly dying for over a year


i see no reason to outright ban irl challenges if people want to have them, just dont have them count towards the challenge belt
You realise that you can make nice looking IRL bots that can actually fight too, right? That's literally what I've been doing for the past year or so.
Absolutely, but if you have competitive challenges in IRL the focus shifts away from the 'look good' part and onto the 'fights well' part. It starts out fine but after a while you just start seeing cheap low effort sh**bots showing up again
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Offline Sage

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Re: RA2 CHALLENGE THREAD - DISCUSSIONS
« Reply #1784 on: September 30, 2017, 02:29:01 PM »
if someone is the board belt title holder, and they we're like "yo the only way you can take this belt from me is to beat my IRL robot with yours", that would never be fair since IRL is so subjective.
The reason it's banned for the monthly belt is because it's no longer a consensual choice for the opponent to be OK with a lottery fight with no real rules.
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Re: RA2 CHALLENGE THREAD - DISCUSSIONS
« Reply #1785 on: September 30, 2017, 02:50:17 PM »
Lets take the GTM Challenge Belt idea 090901 did and slightly modify it:

Firstly, all current challenge board title holders and active competitors from this month go into a bracket. Winner gets the belt. Before each tournament, a public vote is done to decide/moderators decide/champion decides what mod is used for the bracket from the main 3: DSL-S, Ironforge-S, Stock. After the bracket, the title holder can propose doing a DIFFERENT meta, which can be any functioning mod. However, the challenger and champion MUST agree on this. if they don't, the title bout will default through two stages: they will first be given a chance to agree on one of the 3 original mods, and if they can't agree even then then the match is fought in the same meta as the challenger-deciding bracket.

This means that if both the Challenger and Champion agree to do IRL or any other contentious mod, it can happen.

Finally, I'd also run side titles for the seperate metas: DSL-IRL, DSL-S, DSL-U, Stock-IRL (purely for completions sake, even i'm in favour of this title being scrapped), Stock-S (again for completion's sake), Stock-U (or just Stock), IF-IRL (like DSL-IRL only more balanced and less aestheticly pleasing, perhaps the best way to run competitive IRL), IRL-S, IRL-U, Other (Total cluster****. The GTM equivalent of the WWE Hardcore title where anything could happen.)

Some of those titles can be pruned if they aren't actually being fought for, and they'd also help seed people when it comes to the brackets for the GTM Challenge Belt tournament. It also provides diversity in the meta usage, might resurrect a couple of metas, and if the Challenger/Champion disagree/don't want to fight IRL for the Challenge Belt, we'll still have belts that can be used for IRL.

This is the absolute optimal Challenge Board Title system because it allows for everything without unnecessarily restricting, and keeps the Challenge Belt as pure as possible.

Totally banning IRL titles is a frankly stupid idea that I refuse to stand for. it's the most popular meta for a reason.
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Offline Mr. AS

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Re: RA2 CHALLENGE THREAD - DISCUSSIONS
« Reply #1786 on: September 30, 2017, 02:52:59 PM »
Totally banning IRL titles is a frankly stupid idea that I refuse to stand for. it's the most popular meta for a reason.
Because it's easy to build. Nothing else to it.
How you make Alarm Clock Pizza is:
Step 1: You buy an alarm clock from the store, and then you have to break it and put it in the sauce.
Step 2: Fold the sauce in 5 slices and put it in the dough.
Step 3: Paint the eggs with a pitcher of a clock showing what time you want to wake up and eat pizza for breakfast.
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Offline TheRoboteer

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Re: RA2 CHALLENGE THREAD - DISCUSSIONS
« Reply #1787 on: September 30, 2017, 02:58:12 PM »
Totally banning IRL titles is a frankly stupid idea that I refuse to stand for. it's the most popular meta for a reason.
Because it's easy to build. Nothing else to it.
So's stock IRL and nobody plays that. DSL IRL is popular because people wanna build stuff like what they see on BB and RW and DSL provides the best tools to do so. Nothing else to it
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Offline Sage

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Re: RA2 CHALLENGE THREAD - DISCUSSIONS
« Reply #1788 on: September 30, 2017, 03:05:19 PM »
After the bracket, the title holder can propose doing a DIFFERENT meta, which can be any functioning mod. However, the challenger and champion MUST agree on this.

how is this any different than any other challenge? the champion can just keep not agreeing on anything, and then either the challenger is forced to agree on IRL or the champion doesn't actually get any decision power.
You got my vote for RA2 Wizard. Always and forever.

Offline kix

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Re: RA2 CHALLENGE THREAD - DISCUSSIONS
« Reply #1789 on: September 30, 2017, 03:18:41 PM »
This BAN IRL idea is a bit.... crap, tbh

Offline Avalanche

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Re: RA2 CHALLENGE THREAD - DISCUSSIONS
« Reply #1790 on: September 30, 2017, 03:19:38 PM »
After the bracket, the title holder can propose doing a DIFFERENT meta, which can be any functioning mod. However, the challenger and champion MUST agree on this.

how is this any different than any other challenge? the champion can just keep not agreeing on anything, and then either the challenger is forced to agree on IRL or the champion doesn't actually get any decision power.
" a public vote is done to decide/moderators decide/champion decides what mod is used for the bracket from the main 3: DSL-S, Ironforge-S, Stock."

If you had actually read the proposal, you would have seen "champion decides" as an option. As I was saying, the champion sets the original meta for the bracket. Once a challenger is found, if they agree on a different meta, they build robots for that meta. if they cannot agree or prefer the original meta, the robots they built for the original meta are used.

This way the main 3 metas are used but if the challenger agrees with the champion who wants to use something different (or vice versa) then you can have the title defended in all metas, which I think is simply the best method because it keeps the Core 3 competitive, but if other metas are suggested and agreed to be used then we can use them. Best of both worlds.
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Offline Sage

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Re: RA2 CHALLENGE THREAD - DISCUSSIONS
« Reply #1791 on: September 30, 2017, 03:25:46 PM »

" a public vote is done to decide/moderators decide/champion decides what mod is used for the bracket from the main 3: DSL-S, Ironforge-S, Stock."

If you had actually read the proposal, you would have seen "champion decides" as an option.

yeah I like that option best.
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Offline Avalanche

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Re: RA2 CHALLENGE THREAD - DISCUSSIONS
« Reply #1792 on: September 30, 2017, 03:32:06 PM »
You didn't comment on anything else in that post so i'm going to assume you didn't read it. Like I said, if the champion cannot agree with the challenger on a different meta then his original choice from the main 3 is used. This allows the core three to be used as mainstays, and the others to be used so that IRL, Unrealistic IF, all the other oddball metas aren't totally disused and we can have some actual variety.

Is there anything wrong with this proposal or can we just add my system onto 09's and move on?
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Offline 090901

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Re: RA2 CHALLENGE THREAD - DISCUSSIONS
« Reply #1793 on: September 30, 2017, 03:32:07 PM »
so what's the point of your idea other than you wanting to shoehorn IRL into a challenge belt match which i really doubt will ever happen since i fail to see why people who just won a bunch of competitive matches and have bots already built would want to do an IRL match.

Offline Sage

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Re: RA2 CHALLENGE THREAD - DISCUSSIONS
« Reply #1794 on: September 30, 2017, 03:39:47 PM »

Is there anything wrong with this proposal or can we just add my system onto 09's and move on?

Yes. the only point of your system is to allow for IRL, but it doesn't even fix the problem. it just makes the whole system convoluted and not as fun. sorry you disagree, but I like 090901s idea (with the caveat that the champion always decides the meta).

dragonfire, thanks for getting this set up and ready to go by next month!
You got my vote for RA2 Wizard. Always and forever.

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Re: RA2 CHALLENGE THREAD - DISCUSSIONS
« Reply #1795 on: September 30, 2017, 03:42:05 PM »
Letting IRL have a competitive title is going lead to more examples Busch League looks and thinly veiled attempts at combat efficiency. I don't believe I have to explain what metagaming does to anything it's not designed for. I'm sure you've seen what happens in any video game with an unintended completive scene.

Let me interrupt anyone before they say " Looks will come first. Builders don't always have to try and win a title in a title fight." If some challenger doesn't make a good attempt win the title, they're taking up a slot that other could have had. I guarantee you this will a flame war and will send a burden of flack to the one with built for the art (Y'know, the one who understands IRL to it original intent?).

Offline Avalanche

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Re: RA2 CHALLENGE THREAD - DISCUSSIONS
« Reply #1796 on: September 30, 2017, 03:46:06 PM »

Is there anything wrong with this proposal or can we just add my system onto 09's and move on?

Yes. the only point of your system is to allow for IRL, but it doesn't even fix the problem. it just makes the whole system convoluted and not as fun. sorry you disagree, but I like 090901s idea (with the caveat that the champion always decides the meta).

dragonfire, thanks for getting this set up and ready to go by next month!

It allows for ALL metas to be used, not just the Core 3. It doesn't hurt the system in any way. If you won't run it this way, I would gladly do it, unofficially or officially.

IRL can easily be adapted to competition. Simply make it so that the realism rules are more strict than DSL-S's, and that's it. Especially considering everybody is going for the win when they go on the challenge board, and so "tryharding" isn't a problem there cause that's literally the entire point of the challenge board.
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Offline 090901

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Re: RA2 CHALLENGE THREAD - DISCUSSIONS
« Reply #1797 on: September 30, 2017, 03:53:30 PM »

Is there anything wrong with this proposal or can we just add my system onto 09's and move on?

Yes. the only point of your system is to allow for IRL, but it doesn't even fix the problem. it just makes the whole system convoluted and not as fun. sorry you disagree, but I like 090901s idea (with the caveat that the champion always decides the meta).

dragonfire, thanks for getting this set up and ready to go by next month!

It allows for ALL metas to be used, not just the Core 3. It doesn't hurt the system in any way. If you won't run it this way, I would gladly do it, unofficially or officially.

IRL can easily be adapted to competition. Simply make it so that the realism rules are more strict than DSL-S's, and that's it. Especially considering everybody is going for the win when they go on the challenge board, and so "tryharding" isn't a problem there cause that's literally the entire point of the challenge board.
no

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Re: RA2 CHALLENGE THREAD - DISCUSSIONS
« Reply #1798 on: September 30, 2017, 03:55:26 PM »
IRL can easily be adapted to competition. Simply make it so that the realism rules are more strict than DSL-S's, and that's it.

So DSL-Subpar?

Offline Dragonfire

Re: RA2 CHALLENGE THREAD - DISCUSSIONS
« Reply #1799 on: September 30, 2017, 04:01:58 PM »
dragonfire, thanks for getting this set up and ready to go by next month!

It doesn't look like there has been a finalised format yet, we may need to delay implementation.